Canopus vs. Matrox

[matrox@mylittlefamily.com]

It's interesting to note that Canopus seems to be trying to play "catch-up" in some areas. I say "trying" because they apparently missed the mark. However, it still is a huge and significant upgrade for what Canopus users have been used to.

- They have JUST added alpha channel support (which RTX has had since day 1)

- Using their effects as a filter disables the realtime functionality of the system (again, not a problem on the RTX since day 1)

- No NTSC preview for either while in the Composer screen. ( available on the RTX w/ Xtreme )

AND, for Canopus Xplode Pro V4 you have to pay the $100 Canopus tax if you've previously paid the $200 Xplode Pro V3 tax. ($300 total)

If you don't own Xplode Pro (just have the bundled version) then it's a $200 Canopus tax to get Xplode Pro V4.

What a deal !!!

Additional cost:
Canopus $300 (for less functionality)
Matrox $0

[ezakaria]

I totally agree here, Matrox have been extremely generous by constantly offering free effects and upgrades to RT.X100 users.
Heck Xtreme will cost the RT.X100 absolutely nothing, where as Storm users aprox $200, until they resold the same hardware with Storm upgrade.

It's a matter of what hardware suits you the most, and for my needs.. RT Colour correction and white balance, Xtreme Preview, Superb RT Slo mo, RT 2D/3D flex 3D based effects is why I really like the RT.X100.

Matrox is working very hard to provide as many tools for the .X100 as possible, and as I see it.. their hard work is paying off, THANKS MATROX!

Cheers,
Elie

[matrox@mylittlefamily.com]

Yes, I'm totally pleased that Matrox is releasing Xtools5 for free.

On the other hand, being a Canopus Xplode Pro 3 owner, I don't need to tell you how I feel about having to shell out another $100 to upgrade, after recently shelling out $150 for Storm2 upgrade...

Anyways, I'm glad the Canopus blood letting has stopped at my end for the time being.

Xtreme saves the day.

[junprostar]

MATROX!!!! WE LOVE YOU!!!!!

Jun

[Farid_Yamanie]

Me too!!!

Regards

[Bear]

Hello,

I agree with you guys. I recently went to check out the Canopus' website and I'm just terrified to see how their moderators replied to a post comparing RTX and DVStorm2. It seems they were too harsh to some RTX owners there - I don't really see their professionalism.

As I've computed, buying RT2000 then RTX100 is really cheaper than buying DVStorm plus all its upgrades..

Peter

[Ray_Austin]

Before the RTX100 I had seriously contemplated buying the storm for the RT chroma key, but because at that time of all the silly work-arounds with ref. files, lack of 3d effects on title and keyframable attributes not to mention the virtual clip snafu for PIP's and so on I just decided to hold out for something better.

I can see that the Storm has made improvements, but I prefer the new Xtreme package where I can edit in RT and even if I have a complex sequence be able to edit thru it without having to render until the edit is done. I am sure this will only get better as time goes on.

The RTX100 Xtreme kicks butt and takes names.

The slo-mo is to die for... you gize are gonna luv it!

~Edius Smedius~

[ April 25, 2003, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: ray_austin@hotmail.com ]

[Bear]

Videomaker's Test Bench:
Canopus RES-100 DVStorm2 Plus Editing Turnkey

Videomaker Magazine Test Bench: Canopus RES-100 DVStorm2 Plus Editing Turnkey

One Highlight of this review is:

quote:

---

We did experience two random crashes of Premiere 6.5 in our tests, possibly related to previewing, but we couldn't recreate the problem. In both cases, Premiere simply disappeared. It didn't hang, there was no Blue Screen of Death, we saw no error message before or after: Premiere just vanished into thin air.

---

New effect you got there! The "Disappear" effect.. I wonder when Matrox will give us that free effect available for download at FXZone

Peter

[dlaborde@shabakah.net.sa]

Guys,

I'll have to agree on this one. I usually refrain from arguing or even getting in on most forum post arguments but I did interject a thing or two on the Canopus forum (recently). I own both RTX.100 and Storm so I know first hand what is different between the two - most who post over there do not even know the true differences. I had suggested to the group that it was obvious that the Storm's recent upgrades were a direct result of the RTX.100 entering the market (this was too obvious) and that upgrades would have been even more had the RTX.100 not come on the scene at the price it did. I also pointed out that some innovations (like auto white balance) were first done by Matrox and Canopus followed suit. I think what really touched them off is when I noted I had a total of $2300 invested in both the RT2000 and RTX.100 COMBINED plus I get Extreme free and constant updates on Fx Zone. With my original Storm purchase and going to Storm2 stuff sets me back $2550 - this did not include Premiere 6.5 upgrade or Imaginate (nor Edius). Heck for the differnces noted Storm2 should be expected to do more. Given reponses that followed the $ for $ analysis caused some to come un-glued!!! Heck if ya take the RT2000 out the differnces is really big yet what you get is not. Think some of the logical post made on the subject is what made them lock the post from further responses. I find there is more emotion over there - less facts and open thinking. Heck, here people tend to call things as they see them even against Matrox. They (Matrox) doesn't tend to take offence but rather seems to work that much harder to get answers and make things better. I also find that tech support from Matrox gererally has more detailed / usable solutions (actual answers) posted in the forum and communicated over the phone than the Canopus support guys. Just my observations & opinions.
David LaBorde

[Ray_Austin]

It's comments like these I can't understand because I don't own the storm... this sounds like a serious limitation/ hassle work around to me.

This was taken from the edius board in which they are talking about rendering in Edius.

quote:

---

Re: Rendering in Edius [Re:artwork]
#55740 - 04/23/03 02:28 PM Edit Reply Quote



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

artwork said:
What do you mean by keyers? Chromakey is now a part of the filter interface, so can you render those within the project?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In EDIUS, Chroma key, Luma key, Picture-in-Picture and 3D Picture-in-Picture are in a separate Keyers group.

These require rendering that section of the timeline to a file if you need to render them.

As far as I'm aware, timeline renders render all the data, creating a movable self-contained file.

---

http://forum.canopus.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=edius&Number=55480&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

We don't have to do this with the RTX100 Xtreme. The 5 RT video layers they throw around so much sounds sketchy to me now after reading this.

[matrox@mylittlefamily.com]

I think Dave Laborde's comments are on the level.

There are a small number of people such as Dave and myself that have owned and used both the Canopus DVStorm2 and the RTX.

As Dave would probably agree, I can tell you that overall, RTX is a better system.

However, when you own a particular product, there is a certain "brand loyalty" that exists, and unfortunately, many Storm2 users are really quite blind to the realities of the RTX because they would rather not believe Matrox has the better system.

I almost have to laugh when I read about Xplode Pro 4 and how they marvel at "alpha channel support" and "keyframing". Whereas when the RTX first came out, the Storm users all said "3D effects were cheezy". That's because if you had a Storm, it was. Now that Xplode Pro is copying some of the feature of Xtools, all of a sudden, 3D almost appears to be "in" amongst the Canopus crowd.

Overall, RTX is much more usable than the Storm, and more stable.

[mmo7]

Yes David, I read the thread on the Canopus Storm forum and some of the responses (attacks) were what I consider "vicious". Very defensive attitudes and lack of professionalism.

Mo

[dlaborde@shabakah.net.sa]

As you guys also noted - Canopus tends to nickle & dime (tax) you on stuff. Some of those guys bought in early and they later got Imaginate and ProCoder. I think they are starting to realize they've sunk closer to the 4 grand range with investments and the differences are not that great for the price difference. For all that money there are obviously other solutions that don't involve "poofs". In fact I am absolutley amazed at all the things we've gotten for free from Matrox. A few post I've seen from eyewitnesses that they saw Edius go "poof" - like with Premiere. Would not be surprised to see it remains an issue for a while. We'll see. I think competition is great and you guys seem to be open and are willing to discuss the benefits of any system regardless of the brand. That's what get things moving as the supplier gets a better understanding of the "pulse", wnats adn needs. Take care.
David

[fotis99@yahoo.com]

HI there Matrox users.
It tends to become a religion......
I too am a matrox user since the early steps...
and I dont mean rt2000 only but rainbow runner that still runs on an old pc....
I own rt2000, rt2500, rtx100 and DVstorm2....
I know the differences because I use them professionaly.
I make weddings and stuff so for me first of all time is money..
Since rtx100 I doubled my working capacity.
Storm came just to help me on more culture videos
as a time saver with its 5 video layers (RT) and old movie (RT) and 30 title layers (RT).
I had a hard time going into the working philosophy of canopus. (always looked for matrox export, for dvd and so on..)
I like matrox because its fast without any problems, but...
when it comes to special effects I think canopus has the upper hand like said (old movie 30 titles and so) I dont have to consider any RT rules, I just create.
And thats the keypoint. If you need speed then you need matrox. Its a production mashine. If you need effects freedom and no render then you need storm.
I am trying to stay as objective as I can be with this. I like the simplicity of matrox , but I have to admit that I am impressed with the capabilities of storm2.
And dont bring that stuff about hangs and premiere dissapear and so...
Just have a look on the oldests post right hier.
You will find endless problems from rt2000 and 2500. ( I was lucky not having any of that.)
Its all in the pc. If you build a good one then its all ok. And that goes for both matrox and canopus.
I am very pleased with both because I use them in different areas.
Just for the end I will like to give my best regards on matrox on its online help (forums and so on ) On that area I think canopus has a long way.........
Fotis Kourmadas
Greece

[ April 29, 2003, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: fotis99@yahoo.com ]

[dlaborde@shabakah.net.sa]

Fotis,

Well put and I agree with most of what you say with the exception of the system influencing the stability. Of course that is basically true but with regards to the Storm and "poof"; I placed a RTX.100 on the same Tyan MOBO computer system that I had the Storm on (everything else left the same) and not once did it go "poof" using the RTX but would with the Storm. At least that has been my personal experience. No doubt you can generate more layers with Storm but the new Extreme sounds promising in this area. I agree with you than in general the RTX100 is easier to use and allows work flow to be more creative. Add the price differences and Canopus upgrade taxes and you start seeing a large gap. No doubt the Storm installs easier and on more lower power systems. Got to give them credit on that.
David