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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: MX02 Mini MAX not showing substantial performance boost |
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Hello
The Matrox website claims
"On the Mac, you can deliver H.264 files for the web and mobile devices directly from Media Composer up to five times faster than software alone, without sacrificing quality."
I've been exporting 428x240 H.264s for our Web Dailies, and have noticed that it's just barely faster than software. On a Dual-Dual core MacPro the exports take approximately realtime (~45 mins for ~45 mins) while with Max the time is just barely shorter (~40 mins for ~45 mins).
I'm not concerned about optimal quality, as our source footage is already XDCAM Proxy files. Can you please provide a specification that will allow me to take advantage of the sole reason I bought the more expensive edition of the device? I'm sure you can imagine my frustration. |
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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Specs may help...
Avid MC 5.5.3.4
Snow Leopard 10.6.8
2x2.4 Quad Core Mac Pro, 6GB 1066 ram.
Matrox MX02 Mini w MAX via PCI-e.
I've tried the MAX outputs with a variety of bitrate, quality and other settings and the performance remains about the same. Though it just crashes AVID entirely (export fails and AVID goes to 100% memory) if I don't provide a target bitrate - not sure if that's a known issue. |
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Matrox_Support_Sam
(Moderator)
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Can you confirm your MXO2 Mini MAX software version?
What is your source XDCAM video frame size and frame rate?
Which exact Matrox preset are you using? Have you modified it in any way? If so, please list the detailed changes.
Is 'scene detection' enabled? This can considerably increase encoding time if the footage has a lot of scene changes.
Are you exporting using High Quality or Fast Encode setting?
For exporting to H.264 using MAX from Avid, here is the procedure:
Load Timeline in MC
File -> Export -> Options
Export as: 'Quicktime Movie'
Click on 'Custom' then on 'Format Options'
Click on Video 'Settings'
Set Compression Type to 'Matrox MAX H.264'
Setup other values as needed
Then start encode by clicking 'Save'
Certain codecs (XDCAM EX, Prores HQ) do require longer to encode. But using MAX will still be a LOT faster than using a native preset. So that is always the best comparison. Also, if any part of your sequence requires rendering, this will add to the total time for your compression job.
_________________
Regards,
Sam
Matrox Video Technical Support |
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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Matrox_Support_Sam wrote: | Hi,
Can you confirm your MXO2 Mini MAX software version?
What is your source XDCAM video frame size and frame rate?
Which exact Matrox preset are you using? Have you modified it in any way? If so, please list the detailed changes.
Is 'scene detection' enabled? This can considerably increase encoding time if the footage has a lot of scene changes.
Are you exporting using High Quality or Fast Encode setting?
For exporting to H.264 using MAX from Avid, here is the procedure:
Load Timeline in MC
File -> Export -> Options
Export as: 'Quicktime Movie'
Click on 'Custom' then on 'Format Options'
Click on Video 'Settings'
Set Compression Type to 'Matrox MAX H.264'
Setup other values as needed
Then start encode by clicking 'Save'
Certain codecs (XDCAM EX, Prores HQ) do require longer to encode. But using MAX will still be a LOT faster than using a native preset. So that is always the best comparison. Also, if any part of your sequence requires rendering, this will add to the total time for your compression job. |
Using 2.5.0.0034 as recommended in another thread by another staff member, but had the same disappointing performance on the last release which said specifically that it supported 10.6 (2.2.3.0043).
The original source is XDCAM 50Mbit 1080p23.98 - but we're working with the automatically created proxies, so it's an MPEG-4 @ 525i or something like that. Sequence settings 1080p23.93.
Where do I access the presets, scene detection, and high quality/fast encode? None of these options appear when I attempt to export from my MC5 timeline in the way you've described (which is the same way I've been trying). I did see them mentioned for use in Compressor, but I don't use Compressor. I see no MAX options whatsoever in the System Preferences pane either, so I have no clue where I'd set any of these options.
The options visible to me in AVID are as follows:
Quality slider
Algorithm CABAC or CAVLC
Deinterlace radio button
H.264 Level dropdown
Noise filter level dropdown
Using MAX with totally default settings was, unfortunately, not "a LOT faster". It was approximately 10% faster than the software preset with the same bitrate (that was the 40 vs 45 minute comparison I mentioned).
No part of the sequences in question require rendering. These are dailies exports, which means untouched exports of exactly what comes off the camera.
I apologize if I come off a bit brusque; I'm just disappointed that I'm not seeing the type of performance I hoped for. |
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Matrox_Support_Sam
(Moderator)
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hi TheNextStepPost,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, the Scene Detection and Quality presets are only available through Compressor.
Based on your workflow information, it does not appear that your Matrox MXO2 MAX has any hardware issue. When it comes to encoding times, there are a lot of variables at play.
MAX always encodes at the same speed. What differs is how long it takes for the video data to be ready.
For example, encoding Prores source files is faster than encoding Prores HQ or XDCAM files. It's not MAX that is doing anything slower, it's that these dense codecs require more time to decompress and actually make the video data ready to MAX. Once the video data is made available to MAX, it processes it at its normal speed. This is why encoding time will vary based on your source file codec.
The encoding software also plays a role in the amount of time it takes to send the data to Matrox to be encoded. And then there is a large set of variable at play with the encoding options or parameters. For example, encoding smaller frame sizes will not show as dramatic a difference in encoding times as encoding full HD files. Also, it's not always evident on matching Matrox vs Apple/native presets as the encoding options differ. The goal is to set the parameters so that the main options and data rate are as close as possible. This is so a fair comparison can be achieved.
Hope this clarifies your workflow inquiry regarding MAX encoding and performance.
_________________
Regards,
Sam
Matrox Video Technical Support |
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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Matrox_Support_Sam wrote: | Hi TheNextStepPost,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, the Scene Detection and Quality presets are only available through Compressor.
Based on your workflow information, it does not appear that your Matrox MXO2 MAX has any hardware issue. When it comes to encoding times, there are a lot of variables at play.
MAX always encodes at the same speed. What differs is how long it takes for the video data to be ready.
For example, encoding Prores source files is faster than encoding Prores HQ or XDCAM files. It's not MAX that is doing anything slower, it's that these dense codecs require more time to decompress and actually make the video data ready to MAX. Once the video data is made available to MAX, it processes it at its normal speed. This is why encoding time will vary based on your source file codec.
The encoding software also plays a role in the amount of time it takes to send the data to Matrox to be encoded. And then there is a large set of variable at play with the encoding options or parameters. For example, encoding smaller frame sizes will not show as dramatic a difference in encoding times as encoding full HD files. Also, it's not always evident on matching Matrox vs Apple/native presets as the encoding options differ. The goal is to set the parameters so that the main options and data rate are as close as possible. This is so a fair comparison can be achieved.
Hope this clarifies your workflow inquiry regarding MAX encoding and performance. |
Well, thanks for letting me know. Still disappointed but I will try it with full rez workflows and see if it offers the performance boost I'm looking for. |
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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Well isn't this a treat...
After setting my dailies to go out last night I discover this morning that QTX plays back the Matrox Max H.264 files as a black screen with audio under it. This is not isolated to one system. QT7, MPEG Streamclip etc play it fine - but the producers this footage goes to are going to be, for the most part, using QTX. Now my dailies are going to be hours delayed, and I have to reassign my employees so I have a spare system to do the export on during work hours.
Is there a way I can prevent this, or has the Max just shown itself to be entirely unusable to me as a production tool? It looks to me like I've just thrown hundreds of dollars into the wind, as I'll get no more use out of this MAX box than a standard MX02 Mini. |
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Matrox_Support_Sam
(Moderator)
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Your issue seems quite similar to a documented issue found in our Release Notes: http://www.matrox.com/video/media/pdf/support/mxo2/doc/en_Matrox_MXO2_Release_Notes_2_5.pdf
| Quote: | When encoding for QuickTime (.mov) using a custom width and height for
your output, you may not be able to view your encoded video using
QuickTime X. To avoid this:
- The minimum height must be 162 pixels.
- The width must be a value within the following ranges: 306-320, 466-480,
626-640, 706-720, 946-960, 1266-1280, 1426-1440, 1906-1920.
(Ref# 52006) |
Please follow the recommended width and height specs to avoid issues while playing back in QTX.
Hope this information helps.
_________________
Regards,
Sam
Matrox Video Technical Support |
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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Matrox_Support_Sam wrote: | Hi,
Your issue seems quite similar to a documented issue found in our Release Notes: http://www.matrox.com/video/media/pdf/support/mxo2/doc/en_Matrox_MXO2_Release_Notes_2_5.pdf
| Quote: | When encoding for QuickTime (.mov) using a custom width and height for
your output, you may not be able to view your encoded video using
QuickTime X. To avoid this:
- The minimum height must be 162 pixels.
- The width must be a value within the following ranges: 306-320, 466-480,
626-640, 706-720, 946-960, 1266-1280, 1426-1440, 1906-1920.
(Ref# 52006) |
Please follow the recommended width and height specs to avoid issues while playing back in QTX.
Hope this information helps. |
It does.
I find this rather ludicrous however. Why is your company's product limited this way? |
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Matrox_Support_Sam
(Moderator)
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Some players might not be able to read the headers of files with certain dimensions and therefore, not output correctly or at all.
_________________
Regards,
Sam
Matrox Video Technical Support |
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TheNextStepPost
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Matrox_Support_Sam wrote: | | Some players might not be able to read the headers of files with certain dimensions and therefore, not output correctly or at all. |
I've been exporting videos with these exact specifications for years via software encoding in AVID and have never had this issue, so it's not limited to a player side issue. What must be happening, then, is that the header that the MAX box puts on the file can't be read by QTX if it's within certain dimensions. Is there any anticipated fix in the works for this? |
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Matrox_Support_Sam
(Moderator)
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 5554
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Tech Support does not have any updates regarding a possible fix for this issue. As soon as we have any further updates, we will inform our users.
Thank you for your understanding.
_________________
Regards,
Sam
Matrox Video Technical Support |
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