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MXO2 - RTX100 Effects for Realtime Editing
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Roger F.
(MXO)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: MXO2 - RTX100 Effects for Realtime Editing Reply with quote

Hello Matrox!

I'm a Matrox user from the RT.2000 days on using now RT.X100.
Because I'm now evaluating a product for AVCHD editing I was looking up the forum for field reports with the MXO2 mini max.

However I found evidence that MXO2 is apparently just a 'better' break out box for output which can't touch the realtime features from the RT.X100 card.

see the following posts:

Matrox Effects - "From the Old Days"
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=3254

and

RTX100 Effects for MX02
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=4829

Another post gives us a little hope that at least some of the features meanwhile are available in realtime:

MXO2 - Realtime Editing + realtime preview of AVCHD/HDV/DV?
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=3337

Is there a chance that Matrox provides the full range of realtime effects like for the RT.X100 card?

What does the roadmap for MXO2 tell or do I have to wait for MXO3?

Thanks for your reply!

Cheers,
Roger
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autumn
(MXO)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 764

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: MXO2 - RTX100 Effects for Realtime Editing Reply with quote

Hi Roger,

The days of RT cards with loads of effects are over, sorry. The good news is that the new 64-bit PCs are so fast that rendering (if even needed) goes very quickly. The MXO2 Mini and CS5 provide a lot of realtime power as is, like Matrox Color Correction and Keying, Adobe Motion, Dissolves, Wipes. The Adobe Mercury Playback Engine provides a lot of realtime performance for Adobe-native effects.

MXO2 will do realtime up-down-cross conversion on both capture and playback. MXO2 and CS5 provide a great solution for mix and match realtime editing. There are third-party plug-in providers that can take care of your need for a greater variety of effects if need be.

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers
www.sharbor.com




Roger F. wrote:
Hello Matrox!

I'm a Matrox user from the RT.2000 days on using now RT.X100.
Because I'm now evaluating a product for AVCHD editing I was looking up the forum for field reports with the MXO2 mini max.

However I found evidence that MXO2 is apparently just a 'better' break out box for output which can't touch the realtime features from the RT.X100 card.

see the following posts:

Matrox Effects - "From the Old Days"
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=3254

and

RTX100 Effects for MX02
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=4829

Another post gives us a little hope that at least some of the features meanwhile are available in realtime:

MXO2 - Realtime Editing + realtime preview of AVCHD/HDV/DV?
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=3337

Is there a chance that Matrox provides the full range of realtime effects like for the RT.X100 card?

What does the roadmap for MXO2 tell or do I have to wait for MXO3?

Thanks for your reply!

Cheers,
Roger
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Roger F.
(MXO)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: MXO2 - RTX100 Effects for Realtime Editing Reply with quote

Hello Jeff!

Thank you for your fast reply!

autumn wrote:
The good news is that the new 64-bit PCs are so fast that rendering (if even needed) goes very quickly. The MXO2 Mini and CS5 provide a lot of realtime power as is, like Matrox Color Correction and Keying, Adobe Motion, Dissolves, Wipes. The Adobe Mercury Playback Engine provides a lot of realtime performance for Adobe-native effects.


But very quickly means that there has to be done some rendering at least with Mercury playback.
For example a 10 sec page curl with 1080p: how long does rendering take using Mercury? Seconds? Minutes?

I can't imagine that a filter applied to a one minute sequence can be done in near realtime which could be done in realtime with a RT.X100. I assume, this probably would take minutes to render.


If you now decide to buy a notebook with NVidia Quadro FX 5000 chip (currently there is only a single HP Product availabe) then you would need an absolute high end device that costs you a lot to archieve the same performance as you had with the RT.X100 Card (for SD)

In my personal opinion Matrox just cropped out some essential features to keep the product competitive.

autumn wrote:

The days of RT cards with loads of effects are over, sorry

I'd be willing to pay for a sort of 'extended max version' that brings me back all the realtime features I was used to when I work with my RT.X100.
I don't need fast export, that can be done during the night, I need a relatime EDITING platform that is affordable for ambitious video enthusiasts as well.

Is it too expensive to realize or is it too difficult or is it just a matter of development time? Matrox, tell me what was behind the decision to cut real time power which made former cards very successful!

A somewhat disappointed RT.X100 user who isn't sure if he should stay with Matrox or switch to an alternative competitor.

Cheers,

Roger
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Stan L.
(MXO)

Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roger,

I totally agree with you! I'm disappointed as well concerning MXO2 mini max and missing real time features! Yes, the expectations where high in the beginning!

BTW: Matrox would never admit that they reduce functionality. They will sell this as a feature and a success story that you now have to buy 'fat' hardware instead of a smart editing device. HW industry and Matrox finally takes profit out of it - and you pay it.

I could bet that not a single Matrox guy will ever respond to this threat!

Yours,

Stan
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Matrox_Presales
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Roger and thank you for your interest in matrox products. Unlike the RT.X2 or Axio products, the Matrox MXO2 platforms with MAX work in conjunction with the power of your CPU to perform a variety of advanced realtime effects?some of these effects include: Realtime primary and secondary color correction, chroma and luma keying, speed changes, realtime transitions, Native Adobe Premiere Pro effects and transitions as well as realtime timecode.

The new Cuda technology paved the way for real time GPU effects rendering, Matrox has made the descision to only keep our CPU effects.
Also MAX has been designed to help the Mercury engine in Premiere as well. To see all of this please refer to this page: http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/pc/mxo2_family/adobe_rt/

Compared to our previous AXIO and RT.X2 products, our Matrox MXO2 family of products are designed to work with Adobe CS5 to be a part of the newer more cost effecient tapeless workflows, with the inclusion of HDMI and the ability to turn your HDMI screen into a professional-grade video monitor for color correction.

As Jeff said earlier

Quote:
The good news is that the new 64-bit PCs are so fast that rendering (if even needed) goes very quickly. The MXO2 Mini and CS5 provide a lot of realtime power as is, like Matrox Color Correction and Keying, Adobe Motion, Dissolves, Wipes. The Adobe Mercury Playback Engine provides a lot of realtime performance for Adobe-native effects.

MXO2 will do realtime up-down-cross conversion on both capture and playback. MXO2 and CS5 provide a great solution for mix and match realtime editing. There are third-party plug-in providers that can take care of your need for a greater variety of effects if need be.



Again thank you for your continued support and interest in Matrox products and I am confident that you will be happy with your choice in Matrox.

regards,

JD
Customer Care
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Gunther
(MXO)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys!

More than 500 clicks show that there is great interest in getting back the old real time capacity!

Yes, I agree Cuda support can help if you
a) have a cuda supported card (difficult or almost impossible for a notebook)
b) have a super high-end (this also means high cost) machine

and don't forget, as far as I know CUDA is fast but not as fast as the RT-Capacity from X.100.
The X100 card enabled video editing capacity for less powered systems, that was fairly impressive!

Too bad, that Matrox abandoned this feature for their new-generation devices.

Matrox, please extend the range of the max-powered effects in the same way we know it from RT.X100!

Cheers,
Gunther
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Matrox_Presales
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gunther and thank you for your interest in Matrox products. First to respond to your A and B questions, RT.100 has never or will never work on a laptop. I too miss the days of RT rendering speeds. I have again forwarded your requests to Matrox engineers.

regards,

JD
Customer Care
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Gunther
(MXO)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello JD!

Thank you for your fast repy!

Matrox_Presales wrote:
RT.100 has never or will never work on a laptop.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I mixed this up. I meant that you now DO have to have a CRUDA card to get more or less the same speed.
I really like the concept of the mxo. This would be the first solution that would be suitable for a laptop - if you find one with a cruda enabled card. (Currently there is only one single HP device on the market which in my opinion has significant drawbacks.)


Matrox_Presales wrote:
I too miss the days of RT rendering speeds. I have again forwarded your requests to Matrox engineers.

Actually this is the only reason why I'm still sticking with my SD equipment although I have a HDV camcorder. I don't have the budget to spend tousands of Euros for new HD Editing platform. My great hope was the matrox device with real time capabilities to have an affordable substitute for my RT.X100

Regards,
Gunther
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Matrox_Presales
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gunther, like I said I appreciate your continued interest in Matrox products. We do have a very reasonably priced MXO2 mini which starts at $449 USD, but for exactly what you are looking for perhaps the MXO3 of the future will be right for you.

regards,

JD
Customer Care
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Gunther
(MXO)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello JD,

Thank you for your fast reply.
I've seen the MXO2 mini starting at about 500USD but if you want to have the max option which in fact offers the real time capabilities the price is about 800.
Nevertheless I'd pay 800 USD if it really meets my requirements!

MXO3 - when is it planned to be available for purchase? I know it's hard to tell about release dates in general but do you have a roadmap for me?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Gunther
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Matrox_Presales
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gunther and thank you for your continued interest in Matrox products. We are very happy wih the capabilities of our Matrox MXO2 family of products. The Max technology does not help in rendering, it speeds up H.264 encoding for resolutions ranging from iPod to HD. It uses a dedicated hardware processor to accelerate the creation of H.264 files for Blu-ray, the web, and mobile devices. It is on its own a great feature that can be added at the time of purchase to any member of our MXO2 family of products or purchased seperately as the Matrox CompressHD card for PCIe. The MXO3 is still along time coming and we still have many features that we would like to add to the MXO2. Feel free to check back and see what we have planned for the future: http://www.matrox.com/video/en/press/releases/

regards,

JD
Customer Care
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HSt
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: real time effects Reply with quote

Hello Matrox team!

Is there any update concerning more real time effects with the max-opition?

see also http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=6716&highlight=realtime

Please add way more real time effects that mxo2 max is a real substitute to the RT.X100 capabilities we had for SD. I just own a notebook which is not as powerful as a high-end desktop workstation!

Thank you for your reply,

H.
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Matrox_Presales
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello HST and thank you for your interest in Matrox products. The Max technology increases the speed when encoding to H.264 files. It really has nothing to do with any effects. The product features enhancement forums are monitored by the product managers and specialists, this is where feature requests should be made.

regards,

JD
Customer Care
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HDVideo
(MXO2 Mini)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: MXO2 - RTX100 Effects for Realtime Editing Reply with quote

Roger F. wrote:

But very quickly means that there has to be done some rendering at least with Mercury playback.
For example a 10 sec page curl with 1080p: how long does rendering take using Mercury? Seconds? Minutes?

I can't imagine that a filter applied to a one minute sequence can be done in near realtime which could be done in realtime with a RT.X100. I assume, this probably would take minutes to render.

If I remember correctly, these are the same arguments that came up when the RT.X2 was released. Isn't that when most of the Matrox real time effects were discarded? I, as the OP, go back to the RT2000 or RT2500 days with Matrox and just recently built a new system to run CS5.5 using the MOX2 Mini, upgrading from CS3 and RT.X2. Granted, I never used a lot of the RT Effects provided by Matrox, but I did appreciate the RT advantages when it came to timeline display and encoding for DVD.

I now work with HDV and render primarily to MPEG2-BluRay or sometimes H.264 and my editing time is reduced considerably from the same processes on my old system. An added advantage is that my system doesn't crash all the time and batch export is great!

While a 10 second page curl is not something I would ever anticipate using, I did do one (Adobe page turn) just to see how long it took to render a preview on the timeline; 19 seconds and it was done.

Other than that one example, none of those requesting a return of Matrox RT Effects has indicated what effect they wish to see reinstated so a valid comparison could be made.

I hate to spend money as much as the next guy, but computer systems and software evolve rapidly, as do advances in video equipment and standards, and you can milk the older equipment only so long. In my case, I held out as long as I thought I could and finally built a new system.

Good Luck!
Ed
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HSt
(MXO2 Mini with MAX)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Ed!

Thank you for your reply! Quite good to hear, that I'm obviously not the only one that wants the real time effects from the old days back. Sure, if I spend 10.000 Eur on a machine everything is fluent - but then maybe one does not need a Matrox MXO2 device anymore.

Quote:

I did do one (Adobe page turn) just to see how long it took to render a preview on the timeline; 19 seconds and it was done.

yes, it interrupts your workflow. It doesn't matter if you have just one effect applied but it does if there are more.

Matrox nowadays distances from a real time system, see post:
http://forum.matrox.com/mxo/viewtopic.php?t=6716&start=15

Too bad!

Regards,
H.
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