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Why do I see interlace line twitter/flicker when set to 25p?
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SimonMW
(MXO)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Why do I see interlace line twitter/flicker when set to 25p? Reply with quote

I have always had this issue with the MXO. Even when my footage is 1080 25p and I set the MXO to output 1080 25p I still always see interlaced line flicker the same as I would when displaying 25p on a CRT. It is clear that the MXO is always outputting an interlaced stream even when it should be displaying a purely progressive one.

Will this ever be fixed, or is the MXO not capable of outputting a pure progressive signal to the monitor?
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SimonMW,

The MXO will output an interlaced or progressive signal based on your FCP settings and as long as your monitor supports it.

When working with the MXO you want to always have a 3 way match between your easy setup, the footage, and the video playback settings.

Can you please explain in some more detail where or when you see this interlaced line flicker? For example is it only when working with a certain type of footage, on an effect, etc?

Can you also include for me the following:

Type of Mac (ex: Macbook, MacPro, etc):
Version of OSX:
Version of FCP:
Version of MXO drivers:

If you go to System Preferences>Matrox MXO, what is the firmware version listed here?

Regards,
Matthew
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SimonMW
(MXO)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Matthew,

I set up a Prores 422 project, 1920x1080 25p. My sequence is also set to Prores 422 1920x1080 25p field order set to "none". My footage is XDCAM EX 1920x1080 25p transcoded to Prores 422 1920x1080.

Although I see the interlace flicker on all footage and all settings I have used in the past as well.

My computer is a quad core Mac Pro, OS X Leopard 10.5.6, FCP 6.0.5 and MXO drivers version 2.1.4.05.

The flicker is seen when the footage is being played back. I can clearly see line flicker on the MXO output. The line flicker is not seen if I just play the footage back within Quicktime Player or with Quickview.
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SimonMW,

Please check your inbox.

Regards,
Matthew
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visualvideoes
(MXO2 Mini)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Same problem Reply with quote

Hi

I have exactly the same problem, 1920x1080p footage is looking interlaced. Is there a solution for this issue?

Thanks

David
VisualVideo
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SimonMW and David,

Can you please both provide me with all the following information so I can as closely match your set up when I test this on my end.

System:
OSX version:
FCP version:
QT version:
Video card:
MXO or MXO2:
Matrox driver version:

Outputs:
Are you using a TV or computer monitor:
Output via (Component, SDI, DVI, etc?):
Do you see it on all outputs or only one (if only one, which?):

System Preferences>Matrox MXO:
Mastering tab:
Scrub and pause:
Output 16:9 material as:
Downconvert HD video to SD (enabled or disabled)
DVI Monitor - Virtual bezel (enabled or disabled):
DVI Monitor - Scale to fit (enabled or disabled):

General tab:
Set analog video as:

Presentation tab:
Output desktop as:
Region of interest (enabled or disabled):
Anti-flicker filter (enabled or disabled):
DVI Monitor - scale to fit (enabled or disabled):

FCP:
Type of video you are working with (720p, 1080p, etc):
Codec of video (DVCPRO, Apple Pro Res, etc):
Framerate (24, 29.97, 30, etc):
Easy Setup:
Setting under View>Video Playback>

Regards,
Matthew
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visualvideoes
(MXO2 Mini)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

There go my settings:

System:
OSX version: 10.5.6
FCP version: 6.0.5
QT version: 7.6
Video card: NVIDIA 8800GT
MXO or MXO2: MXO
Matrox driver version: 2.1.4.05 (latest)

Outputs:
Are you using a TV or computer monitor: Computer Monitor (Cinema Display 20")
Output via (Component, SDI, DVI, etc?): DVI
Do you see it on all outputs or only one (if only one, which?): I see it in the Cinema Display 20"

System Preferences>Matrox MXO:
Mastering tab:
Scrub and pause: Both Fields
Output 16:9 material as: Letterbox
Downconvert HD video to SD (enabled or disabled) Enabled
DVI Monitor - Virtual bezel (enabled or disabled): Disabled
DVI Monitor - Scale to fit (enabled or disabled): Disabled

General tab:
Set analog video as: Composite & Y/C

Presentation tab:
Output desktop as: PAL (720x576) 25fps
Region of interest (enabled or disabled): Disabled
Anti-flicker filter (enabled or disabled): Enabled
DVI Monitor - scale to fit (enabled or disabled): Enabled

FCP:
Type of video you are working with (720p, 1080p, etc): 1080p
Codec of video (DVCPRO, Apple Pro Res, etc): Pro Res
Framerate (24, 29.97, 30, etc): 25
Easy Setup:
Setting under View>Video Playback> 1080 25p YUV


David
VisualVideo
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SimonMW,

Thank you for sending me a clip via FTP .

As you mentioned in the PM I looked specifically at the gravel, also at the car and people walking across the road at the beginning.

DVI (full res) - no interlacing
SDI (full res) - no interlacing
Composite (downscaled) - interlacing

One of the most noticeable places I saw the interlacing on composite is the person in a black coat with red on the sides. I really noticed the interlacing here between the red and black, and also between the edge of the car and the wind shield.

The reason behind this interlacing is that composite cables are not capable of displaying a progressive signal so when outputting via an analog signal the MXO automatically converts it to interlaced video.

Regards,
Matthew
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visualvideoes
(MXO2 Mini)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a misunderstanding with this issue, i'm not saying that progressive footage is interlaced. I'm saying it's displayed with flickering that you don't see when using Digital Preview in Cinema Display. This is specially noticeable when viewing graphics and titles.

It flickers when it should not.

That's the point.

David
VisualVideo
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Why do I see interlace line twitter/flicker when set to 25p? Reply with quote

Hi David,

Please check your inbox.

Hi SimonMW,

Please let me know if you see the same thing as me or if your original post is regarding something else.

Regards,
Matthew
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualvideoes wrote:
i think i got some idea what is happening, that is that if i select YUV 25p Uncompressed 1920x1080 or if i select 50i, there is no difference in my 20" Cinema Display, both of these settings are displaying the footage exactly the same. It's is more noticeable when you put some titles on a black background specially when you stop motion in timeline, they seem to have half the resolution like when you stop interlaced footage and you see only one field. It's like viewing progressive footage on an interlaced monitor. Perhaps mxo is sending 25p as 25PsF to the cinema display?


Hi David,

Regarding your PM above, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts you may be seeing some kind of interlacing if you are outputting via an analog connection as they can not display progressive video.

To test what you are saying about a title on a black background, I made a brand new project and put just a crawl title on the timeline and after rendering I don't see any interlacing or bad quality on my DVI monitor when pausing the playback. Would this show me what you're referring to or is there a better test I can do?


Hi SimonMW,

How are things on your end? Were you using an analog output? Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Matthew
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visualvideoes
(MXO2 Mini)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you are telling me you see the crawling footage in full resolution when you stop the timeline? And if so you don't see any twittering borders?

As I told you before, i'm am watching the footage using the dvi out, not analog, and i'm watching it in an Apple Cinema Display 20".

I've tested with 720/25p and 720/50p with progressive display and i see this correctly, no twitter, no half resolution... So... the thing only occurs in 1080/25p.

Perhaps this issue is happening because of the downscaling to 1680x1050 native resolution of the monitor?

I insist this doesn't happen when using Digital Cinema Preview on the same monitor.

Thanks.

David
VisualVideo
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi David,

If your ACD has a resolution of 1680*1050 as opposed to a monitor with a resolution of 1920*1200 as we specify in our system requirements here, this may be where the flicker is coming from.

The reason you do not see it on Digital Cinema Desktop Preview is because this is bypassing the MXO.

Regards,
Matthew
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csound
(MXO)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matrox_Support_Matthew wrote:
Hi David,

If your ACD has a resolution of 1680*1050 as opposed to a monitor with a resolution of 1920*1200 as we specify in our system requirements here, this may be where the flicker is coming from.

The reason you do not see it on Digital Cinema Desktop Preview is because this is bypassing the MXO.

Regards,
Matthew


I have the same issue as Simon with MXO - XDCAM 1080 25p in FCP .. triple checked the 3 way set up , using a Dell 2408 1920 x 1200 on MXO DVI out.
I have same twitter & interlaced look. It's as plain as day to see this issue and am a bit surprised it's not being acknowledged or addressed!
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Matrox_Support_Matthew
(Moderator)




Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi csound,

We are aware that some users experience shakiness on playback but until we reproduce it here we won't be able to address this issue.

Is the shakiness only on scrub and pause or also on playback?

If you go to Apple>System Preferences>Matrox MXO>Mastering tab> does changing scrub and pause to 1st or 2nd field help either on scrub and pause or playback?

Can you post screen shots of all your settings under Apple>System Preferences>Matrox MXO and within FCP? Then I can apply these settings on our MXO system and output via DVI to a 1920*1200 LCD monitor and see if I get the same results.

After you take these screenshots, if you trash the FCP prefs, run easy setup, take a Matrox MXO 1080p25 setup and then make a new project and playback some footage is it any better?

Remember that when you first set up the MXO, you need to go to System Preferences>Displays> and change the resolution of the screen called Matrix MXO to 1920*1200.

Regards,
Matthew
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